Can one experience these Thoughtless states, without practicing Bhavana? Yes,...

SAMADI IS A SKILL.

There are four stages in the practice to Develop (Bhavana) the Samadi. The First stage is where one comes to the uninterrupted Attention on Breathing (Bhavana Object) having a Single Thought about the Breathing, applied and sustained. This is called First Jhanic Samadi.

In the Second Jhanic Samadi, one drops the Thought and become thoughtless about the Breathing, but still the Attention on breathing remains as a continuous Cognizance, thus 'observing' it.

Thus one goes to higher stages in his Development of the Mind, i.e. Bhavana.

Can one experience these Thoughtless states, without practicing Bhavana, i.e. The practice to Develop the Mind? Yes.

If one is observant of his Mind, he would find instants of Thoughts-less state appearing when he is relaxed and nothing to think about. One cannot capture or make this state to remain. It is not under one's control. Hence it is not a Skill (Kusala). And it does not leads to any understanding of the Sufferings.

Samadi is a Skill (Kusala) where one can enter into and remain in it, thus understanding of the Thoughtless state, how thoughts are contributing to the sufferings, as they stimulate Anger, Desire, Lust and Ego.

When thoughts are absent in Samadi state, Anger, Desire, Lust and Ego becomes dormant, subdued.

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